Yea, They are held on with the Clecos now. Those things are fantastic. I am also planning on building a long throat C clamp to clamp around each rivet as I go just to ensure that I can get a tight fit between the inner fender, body, and outer fender. For the most part everything fits well, but it isn't perfect. I spaced the rivets at 1" and now I am thinking I want them closer, but holes are drilled. My only option now is to double up and go at 1/2" which is way to tight.
Family Jeepster Build
- Thread starter RClippa
- Start date
Well my dreams of building a riveted home built airplane and helicopter have been destroyed. I suck at setting solid rivets. I can't seem to get the back side to deform properly. Fortunately I am only holding fenders on a jeep. I probably screwed up and bought steel rivets which are pretty hard to begin with. Then I don't have a true rivet gun, but I am using my air hammer. I hear the rivet gun has more power and fewer strokes. Also this is going to take forever to do. It looks like I wanted though and that is important.
Shorter rivets helped. I am still not going to get poached by Boeing, but the fender isn't going to fall off. I was only able to get the drivers side done. My arms hurt enough that i wasn't going to start the other side. I am going to have to get a phone charger for the shop n. The lack of coverage crews up the battery so i couldn't get any pictures. Next time out i will grab them when i rivet the other fend
Rivets are a pain in the *** to do but look so good when done. Getting a rivet gun helps hugely too. If you want to justify the cost of a new tool, a 4x rivet gun will let you do some flow forming with it and maybe some planishing if you set it up right.
https://www.tinmantech.com/products/hand-tools/flow-forming/
Can't wait to see this done it's going to be killer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://www.tinmantech.com/products/hand-tools/flow-forming/
Can't wait to see this done it's going to be killer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I ran into the problem that I should have ordered all of my rivet tools from one place. My air hammer does the job, but of course a normal straight rivet tool isn't long enough to get past the tube fenders. I had to machine an extension to hold it. An offset tool might have worked but of course I didn't know that at the time. The dome on the tool also wasn't a match for my rivets. I didn't know they made so many different types of rivets. I figured dome, flat, and flush. Of course their are a number of variations to each one and apparently that includes the radius of the dome on a rivet. My tooling was a much larger radius than the actual rivets so they deformed a bit. In the end it is holding on a fender and the inside will be covered up somewhat with spray in bed liner. Hopefully that will cover up all of my sins.
I would hate to buy a $300 rivet gun and barely use it. I just snagged my hammer off my planishing setup and it works. Not perfect, but it works.
Edit:
The pictures make the weld look so bad. It is amazing that when you want something to be smooth how bad a small edge looks. I can either add metal or add filler. At over 53" per fender I can tell you that filler sounds better than all that welding and grinding.
I would hate to buy a $300 rivet gun and barely use it. I just snagged my hammer off my planishing setup and it works. Not perfect, but it works.
Edit:
The pictures make the weld look so bad. It is amazing that when you want something to be smooth how bad a small edge looks. I can either add metal or add filler. At over 53" per fender I can tell you that filler sounds better than all that welding and grinding.
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I am so sick of trying to drive solid rivets. I am not sure why I talked myself into it. Had I know how much it sucked I would have welded the fenders on. Drivers fender is fully riveted and welded to the rock rail. The passenger side is slowly getting riveted. I can only do a few before my elbows start to hurt from the air hammer. Once they start to hurt I jump to something else. I don't know if it is from where I broke my arms or just old age, but that air hammer puts a hurting on me.
This weekend was a bust. Got snagged up at work for the most part. Dean meet me at the local you pull it yard on Sunday. I got the 14 spoke wheels that he found in a junkyard by his house. Now I have 6 wheels and can mount up my tires. They also just dropped 4 TJs on the yard so I picked up a few things. I got all new seats. They had a couple of sets of the gray TJ seats so I picked the best ones and will replace the brown ones rather than getting things re-upholstered. I also got an air box, fuse box mount, transfer case shifter, parking brake cables, throttle cable, a couple shifter boots, and some misc. bolts that I was missing for the engine. So after a couple of hours on the yard I grabbed lunch and left for the shop.
I drove a couple rivets and then got started on the front suspension. I had planned for a custom build track bar, but found a nice unit on a grand cherokee at the junkyard. It is rubber bushings on both ends and has the right bends for the diff. I had to cut off the track bar mounts and move them about 1/2" to fit the new track bar. Then I jacked some coilovers from another build in the shop and started on the front shock mounts. 16" coilovers with some of the easiest mounts I have ever done. They layed right in.
Of course there had to be a snag. The coilovers were easy. Getting the fenders back on is a struggle. I have to clearance the fender for the shock hoop. This picture sucks, but a new camera is on the way so they should improve. I rolled some 18 gauge and welded it into the fender to clear the rear part of the hoop.
Then I could get the fender mounted up to determine the cutout for the coilover. I was sure this would be easy, but the shock hits the fender just wrong.
This hole fits the shock, but through travel the inside off the fender is hit. The plan is to cut out where the fender hits all the way down. Then roll some more sheetmetal and make a bolt on piece that goes to the inside of the coilover. I want it to unbolt so I don't have to remove the shocks to remove the fender. I also want it there to help keep mud out of the engine bay. I have had plenty of rigs that I just clearanced for the shock and called it good. They all worked, but I want something a little more polished this time around.
Then to finish off the day I also picked up a TJ brake booster and master. With a little bit of action with the drill I was able to bolt it in the same location as the original master. I will have to slightly modify the pedal to bolt up with the right travel and starting position. This will be simple, but I have to get the pedal out first. This also has a disc/drum proportioning valve and brake light switch installed so I feel like I make a leap in the right direction.
This weekend was a bust. Got snagged up at work for the most part. Dean meet me at the local you pull it yard on Sunday. I got the 14 spoke wheels that he found in a junkyard by his house. Now I have 6 wheels and can mount up my tires. They also just dropped 4 TJs on the yard so I picked up a few things. I got all new seats. They had a couple of sets of the gray TJ seats so I picked the best ones and will replace the brown ones rather than getting things re-upholstered. I also got an air box, fuse box mount, transfer case shifter, parking brake cables, throttle cable, a couple shifter boots, and some misc. bolts that I was missing for the engine. So after a couple of hours on the yard I grabbed lunch and left for the shop.
I drove a couple rivets and then got started on the front suspension. I had planned for a custom build track bar, but found a nice unit on a grand cherokee at the junkyard. It is rubber bushings on both ends and has the right bends for the diff. I had to cut off the track bar mounts and move them about 1/2" to fit the new track bar. Then I jacked some coilovers from another build in the shop and started on the front shock mounts. 16" coilovers with some of the easiest mounts I have ever done. They layed right in.
Of course there had to be a snag. The coilovers were easy. Getting the fenders back on is a struggle. I have to clearance the fender for the shock hoop. This picture sucks, but a new camera is on the way so they should improve. I rolled some 18 gauge and welded it into the fender to clear the rear part of the hoop.
Then I could get the fender mounted up to determine the cutout for the coilover. I was sure this would be easy, but the shock hits the fender just wrong.
This hole fits the shock, but through travel the inside off the fender is hit. The plan is to cut out where the fender hits all the way down. Then roll some more sheetmetal and make a bolt on piece that goes to the inside of the coilover. I want it to unbolt so I don't have to remove the shocks to remove the fender. I also want it there to help keep mud out of the engine bay. I have had plenty of rigs that I just clearanced for the shock and called it good. They all worked, but I want something a little more polished this time around.
Then to finish off the day I also picked up a TJ brake booster and master. With a little bit of action with the drill I was able to bolt it in the same location as the original master. I will have to slightly modify the pedal to bolt up with the right travel and starting position. This will be simple, but I have to get the pedal out first. This also has a disc/drum proportioning valve and brake light switch installed so I feel like I make a leap in the right direction.
I am definitely going to have to go back for pictures. My dang phone won't hold a charge at the shop because the cell reception sucks so it keeps hunting a signal and ramping up the power to try to find one.
I am really starting to think I may make it to paint. This weekend I checked off some big items
1. Ripped up all of the plants in my front flower beds, replanted, and mulched. Oh that doesn't help me any.
2. Built a clutch pedal box and pedal. Now it works beautifully.
3. Got the fenders fully cut for the coilovers.
4. Cut apart my rotted tailgate and started on a new one. I need an extra set of hands to bead roll the outer skin and it will be ready to weld.
5. More rivets into the passenger fender.
6. Found out that my pitman arm is the bumpstop for the front axle. Not sure how to fix this problem. The steering box is as far forward as it can go and the axle is as far back. I looked into maybe a rear tie rod but I don't know how to get the high steer arms to clear the brake calipers. I might just have to bump stop it and that will suck as that will eat up a couple inches of travel on that side.
7. Broke 2 taps off in a machined piece. What a waste of time to machine a part and then snap a tap at one of the last steps. Not sure how I am going to get it out yet.
All in all it is coming along. Only a few more things to do and the frame will head off to get powder coated.
I am really starting to think I may make it to paint. This weekend I checked off some big items
1. Ripped up all of the plants in my front flower beds, replanted, and mulched. Oh that doesn't help me any.
2. Built a clutch pedal box and pedal. Now it works beautifully.
3. Got the fenders fully cut for the coilovers.
4. Cut apart my rotted tailgate and started on a new one. I need an extra set of hands to bead roll the outer skin and it will be ready to weld.
5. More rivets into the passenger fender.
6. Found out that my pitman arm is the bumpstop for the front axle. Not sure how to fix this problem. The steering box is as far forward as it can go and the axle is as far back. I looked into maybe a rear tie rod but I don't know how to get the high steer arms to clear the brake calipers. I might just have to bump stop it and that will suck as that will eat up a couple inches of travel on that side.
7. Broke 2 taps off in a machined piece. What a waste of time to machine a part and then snap a tap at one of the last steps. Not sure how I am going to get it out yet.
All in all it is coming along. Only a few more things to do and the frame will head off to get powder coated.
I am only four rivets away from being done. The sheetmetal just isn't fitting right after pulling everything tight with the other rivets so I am trying to formulate a plan.
A couple of weeks ago I tried to start stripping the tailgate down for paint. I had already filled holes and done some fabrication on it, when the bondo started flying off of it. It had clearly been brazed back together a few times and bondo used to fill a lot of rust holes. When you pushed on the metal you could actually hear the rust inside.
I wish I would have noticed it earlier.
I cut out everything I couldn't reuse on the tailgate and ended up with only the top couple of inches that could be reused. This is great because I don't have a way to bend that up without calling in favors. I built up a new pivot tube and a 1" square tube frame for a new tailgate. The 1" gives me a perfect thickness of a tailgate to match the seal and body lines.
I didn't have a tube that was the right ID for the pivots so I had to turn some bushings to get everything to fit. I forgot to get a picture before it started going together, but they are welded in on either end to get this to work.
To stiffen up the 20 gauge sheetmetal for the interior panel I added a bunch of 1/8" step beads to emulate the rear floor. I was going to try to match up width and spacing, but my roller doesn't have a deep enough throat so I just made some 2" ribs as far in as I could.
I rolled a similar rib around the outer skin.
I am ready for my drive motor to show up for the bead roller. Trying to manipulate these large panels and crank the handle at the same time lead to a few quality of work problems.
I made some changes in the lines to help with my tire carrier holding up close to the body. I basically removed a step in the tailgate to ensure I had room for some rubber bushings for the carrier to rest against. This meant a quick modification to the body so that the body and tailgate would line up.
My rust repair todo list is shrinking. Only a door skin and windshield frame to go.
A couple of weeks ago I tried to start stripping the tailgate down for paint. I had already filled holes and done some fabrication on it, when the bondo started flying off of it. It had clearly been brazed back together a few times and bondo used to fill a lot of rust holes. When you pushed on the metal you could actually hear the rust inside.
I wish I would have noticed it earlier.I cut out everything I couldn't reuse on the tailgate and ended up with only the top couple of inches that could be reused. This is great because I don't have a way to bend that up without calling in favors. I built up a new pivot tube and a 1" square tube frame for a new tailgate. The 1" gives me a perfect thickness of a tailgate to match the seal and body lines.
I didn't have a tube that was the right ID for the pivots so I had to turn some bushings to get everything to fit. I forgot to get a picture before it started going together, but they are welded in on either end to get this to work.
To stiffen up the 20 gauge sheetmetal for the interior panel I added a bunch of 1/8" step beads to emulate the rear floor. I was going to try to match up width and spacing, but my roller doesn't have a deep enough throat so I just made some 2" ribs as far in as I could.
I rolled a similar rib around the outer skin.
I am ready for my drive motor to show up for the bead roller. Trying to manipulate these large panels and crank the handle at the same time lead to a few quality of work problems.
I made some changes in the lines to help with my tire carrier holding up close to the body. I basically removed a step in the tailgate to ensure I had room for some rubber bushings for the carrier to rest against. This meant a quick modification to the body so that the body and tailgate would line up.
My rust repair todo list is shrinking. Only a door skin and windshield frame to go.
It has been a rough week for the Jeepster. Not only is it not going to the 50th which was the original plan, but a good bit of front suspension work needs to be redone now that everything is together and in place. A few parts just didn't line up like I thought they would.
I worked on getting air bump cans in place. With the wagoneer 44's, the frame width, and the coilovers it is tight. I had to french them into the frame to get them to clear the coilover springs at full droop. Without the french they were just closer than I would want.
I built a winch mount that I have to cut off. I didn't get my measurements right for the 8274. I forgot to account for the gear box.
A TJ transfer case shifter was an easy fit and the linkage was simple.
I had to modify the inner fender for the coilover mounts.
I also did a little clean up on the tailgate to improve fit and finish. It won't win a Riddler but I am a lot happier with it.
I worked on getting air bump cans in place. With the wagoneer 44's, the frame width, and the coilovers it is tight. I had to french them into the frame to get them to clear the coilover springs at full droop. Without the french they were just closer than I would want.
I built a winch mount that I have to cut off. I didn't get my measurements right for the 8274. I forgot to account for the gear box.
A TJ transfer case shifter was an easy fit and the linkage was simple.
I had to modify the inner fender for the coilover mounts.
I also did a little clean up on the tailgate to improve fit and finish. It won't win a Riddler but I am a lot happier with it.
Somedays it is easy to justify my shop rent. Nothing like having access to this stuff all the time to make these projects easier.
So I have a few weekends that I am going to be out of town or otherwise occupied coming up so I have been really trying to get ahead of things. Over the weekend the body and frame were separated so I took some time last night to go back and start welding everything up. I was able to get the top side finished up so my next trip will strip out the motor and axles and flip it over. Might as well flip it rather than welding overhead while laying on my back.
I raised my upper link 2" to make room for the driveshaft. I knew this was coming, but the body is directly over this spot with a body mount so it was way easier to lift and weld with the body off.
I braced in the driver's side motor mount.
Got my winch mount all welded in place.
Added chain loops and finished the welding on the hitch. It is crazy tight on the hitch pin, but it fits right in there.
Welded up the cross member mounts. I usually use bushings at the frame to mount things, but after rebuilding the motor in my suburban I really liked the way the cross member bolted in so I emulated it here. The pockets support the cross member for when I land on it, and the bolts clamp things together and hold it all up.
Overall Chassis Shot
I also pulled the tire carrier and welded it all up. Everything still needs a once over with a wire wheel and a flap disc to clean up any splatter or scale.
So I have a few weekends that I am going to be out of town or otherwise occupied coming up so I have been really trying to get ahead of things. Over the weekend the body and frame were separated so I took some time last night to go back and start welding everything up. I was able to get the top side finished up so my next trip will strip out the motor and axles and flip it over. Might as well flip it rather than welding overhead while laying on my back.
I raised my upper link 2" to make room for the driveshaft. I knew this was coming, but the body is directly over this spot with a body mount so it was way easier to lift and weld with the body off.
I braced in the driver's side motor mount.
Got my winch mount all welded in place.
Added chain loops and finished the welding on the hitch. It is crazy tight on the hitch pin, but it fits right in there.
Welded up the cross member mounts. I usually use bushings at the frame to mount things, but after rebuilding the motor in my suburban I really liked the way the cross member bolted in so I emulated it here. The pockets support the cross member for when I land on it, and the bolts clamp things together and hold it all up.
Overall Chassis Shot
I also pulled the tire carrier and welded it all up. Everything still needs a once over with a wire wheel and a flap disc to clean up any splatter or scale.
I can't believe he didn't take you up on that.
I flipped the frame over the weekend. The chassis is now 100% welded and has been acid cleaned to prep for paint. The paint process is going to take around 8 hours so I couldn't get it done over the weekend. Instead I steam cleaned the engine, trans, and case. Plus the axles to prep them for paint. Hopefully this weekend I can paint everything and start the re-assembly process.
I flipped the frame over the weekend. The chassis is now 100% welded and has been acid cleaned to prep for paint. The paint process is going to take around 8 hours so I couldn't get it done over the weekend. Instead I steam cleaned the engine, trans, and case. Plus the axles to prep them for paint. Hopefully this weekend I can paint everything and start the re-assembly process.
WOW. It has been a few weeks since I was able to really work on this thing. We had a trip to NYC to visit family and then we hosted a mini family reunion at our house to allow most of my siblings to come in and meet our daughter. I missed working on the jeepster but there is no better reason to not get my shop time.
Last weekend I went to the shop for a couple hours after we landed. I spent the time giving the frame and acid bath and the steam cleaning the frame, axles, and motor. Everything was to prep for yesterday. Yesterday I got started early and worked all day. There aren't a ton of pictures, but the frame, axles, and front links received two coats of POR15 and then got sprayed with a chassis black top coat. In order to paint the axles I went ahead and stripped the brakes off since they will be rebuilt anyway.
Rolling the frame around for final welding before the acid bath.
Frame ready to cure.
Even with a shop you run out of space and work outside.
Last weekend I went to the shop for a couple hours after we landed. I spent the time giving the frame and acid bath and the steam cleaning the frame, axles, and motor. Everything was to prep for yesterday. Yesterday I got started early and worked all day. There aren't a ton of pictures, but the frame, axles, and front links received two coats of POR15 and then got sprayed with a chassis black top coat. In order to paint the axles I went ahead and stripped the brakes off since they will be rebuilt anyway.
Rolling the frame around for final welding before the acid bath.
Frame ready to cure.
Even with a shop you run out of space and work outside.
Thanks. I had a much better hanger inside, but I split the shop with a buddy. His side has a white camper top, a really well painted TJ, and a dirt bike. I figured he wouldn't want them to be covered in black over spray so I moved that stuff outside. Unfortunately I didn't think about it until they were already covered in wet POR15 so I scabbed something together.
I won't actually be finished due to lack of money, but it is scheduled for the All4Fun ride in Colorado on July 31st. It should be driveable, but not 100% done. I will still have quite a few detail items left for when I get home. Gaskets, windows, top, new coilovers, and probably gears. There may be some electronics left to sort out like the radio, heater, and heated seats. I am hoping to get a test run in before I leave, but it wouldn't be the first time that I pulled a rig right out of the shop and headed west.